Rogue One's editors reveal the scenes added in the Star Wars standalone reshoots (exclusive)
·Editor, Yahoo Entertainment UK
3 January 2017
Whatever way you look at it ‘Rogue One’, the first of Disney’s
‘Star Wars’ standalone movies directed by Gareth Edwards, has been a roaring
success.
The fans love it, the critics love it (it’s at 85%
on the Rotten Tomatoes Tomatometer), and it’s been a big hit at the
box office too, but since its release it’s emerged that the film could have
been very different if Disney hadn’t reshaped the movie between its principal shoot
that ended in February 2016 and the much-discussed reshoots that happened in
June last year.
You only have to watch the film’s trailers to see huge
scenes that were initially shot but didn’t make it into the
finished film.
Two of the film’s editors John Gilroy (editor of ‘Suicide
Squad’/’Nightcrawler’/’Pacific Rim’ and brother of Tony Gilroy, the ‘Michael
Clayton’ and ‘Bourne Legacy’ director brought in to oversee the reshoots) and
Colin Goudie (editor of Edwards’ 2010 breakout ‘Monsters’) chatted with Yahoo
Movies UK to discuss their roles on the movie, explain how the reshoots
reshaped the movie, and share how some classic footage from ‘A New Hope’ made
it into ‘Rogue One’ with help from the original actor who played Gold Leader.
WARNING: PLOT SPOILERS COMING UP
John Gilroy: I got involved a little
bit later. Jabez and Colin were on from the beginning. I was finishing up a
movie and I got a call from Lucasfilm at the beginning of the summer. They were
reconceptualising some of the story and there was some additional photography
and they wanted a fresh pair of eyes in the room, so I went off and joined
Colin and Jabez.
They’d been carrying the water for a long time.
Colin Goudie: I’d worked with Gareth
[Edwards] previously. I cut his movie ‘Monsters’ so we’d already got a relationship
and I’d actually done a couple of projects with him before that as well. So he
got me on board in September of 2014 and asked me to do a story reel for ‘Rogue
One’.
There was no screenplay, there was just a story breakdown at
that point, scene by scene. He got me to rip hundreds of movies and basically
make ‘Rogue One’ using other films so that they could work out how much
dialogue they actually needed in the film.
It’s very simple to have a line [in the script] that reads
“Krennic’s shuttle descends to the planet”, now that takes maybe 2-3 seconds in
other films, but if you look at any other ‘Star Wars’ film you realise that
takes 45 seconds or a minute of screen time. So by making the whole film that
way – I used a lot of the ‘Star Wars’ films – but also hundreds of other films
too, it gave us a good idea of the timing.
So that’s what I did and that was three months work to do that
and that had captions at the bottom which explained the action that was going
to be taking place, and two thirds of the screen was filled with the concept
art that had already been done and one quarter, the bottom corner, was the
little movie clip to give you how long that scene would actually take.
Then I used dialogue from other movies to give you a sense of
how long it would take in other films for someone to be interrogated. So for
instance, when Jyn gets interrogated at the beginning of the film by the Rebel
council, I used the scene where Ripley gets interrogated in ‘Aliens’.
So you get an idea of what movies usually do.
John Gilroy: I never thanked you for
doing all that!
Colin Goudie: [Laughs] So that was
our starting point, and then six months after that I spent working with The Third Floor, the pre-viz team editing all
the pre-viz big action scenes, so that was the Eadu platform where Jyn rescues
her dad, the going through the shield gate and all of the battle on Scarif, and
a little bit on Jedha where they flee the planet as it explodes.
So then it’s down to shot by shot basis and then that feeds
through and informs the production department for building sets, working out
what shots can be done by stunt persons and what shots will be done by a
digital double, a CGI character, something like that.
It was such a team effort, it had to be. There was so much
material that was filmed for the big scenes like the battle in Jedha market place,
and I would just wade through that material, and knowing what it was like
working with Gareth, I knew what things would catch his eye, what things he
liked and then I would sub that down, feed that through to Jabez and then he
would go and do his cut of that scene, and then maybe a couple of weeks later I
would go back and do a cut of that scene as well.
There were all those different versions for you to look at so
you’re kind of seeing the woods for the trees.
Yahoo Movies: Was it clear from those first assemblies what
parts required reshoots?
Colin Goudie: I think everyone knew,
from the offset, everything was always scheduled from day one for there to be
pickups like on every film. We did exactly the same thing on ‘Monsters’, we
always knew we were going to go back and do pickups, and it was the same thing
with ‘Rogue One’, it was just something that was on the schedule.
We were always going to be there and it was a case of working
out, as the story went on, which pieces need a bit more clarification, which
places needed a bit more character.
Yahoo Movies: How long were the first assemblies running
at?
Colin Goudie: It was not much longer
than the finished film. I think the first assembly was not far off actual
release length. Maybe 10 minutes longer? I genuinely can’t remember because
that was nearly a year ago now. There’s no mythical four hour cut, it doesn’t
exist.
Yahoo Movies: You’ve said Gareth likes to film lots of
takes, and he also shot scenes on 360 sets – does that cause you difficulties
in the edit suite?
Colin Goudie: I usually factor it in
on a Gareth film. He likes to operate himself, Greig [Fraser, cinematographer]
did a lot of operating actually, Gareth by no means operated everything, but when he
does operate in those sorts of battle scenes – he likes to do that – what he
likes to do is to try lots of different compositions on shots.
He would move around in the set and run the line again and
again. As he’s doing it, he’s trying those out, he’s slightly to the left, or
slightly to the right, he’s always moving.
John Gilroy: The 360 sets are mainly just
Jedha city [the planet where Jyn and Cassian travel to to find Saw Gerrera], it
wasn’t always like that. You definitely pick your moments for when you use
that. Jedha was built so you could go 360, but everything wasn’t like that.
Colin Goudie: When you walked on the
Imperial sets they weren’t like that at all. They were simply a corridor on a
set and if you turned around it was the Pinewood lot.
Yahoo Movies: How did the reshoots change the film?
John Gilroy: They gave you the film
that you see today. I think they were incredibly helpful. The story was
reconceptualised to some degree, there were scenes that were added at the
beginning and fleshed out. We wanted to make more of the other characters, like
Cassian’s character [Cassian Andor, the Rebel spy played by Diego Luna], and
Bodhi’s character [Bodhi Rook, the defected Imperial pilot played by Riz
Ahmed].
Of course, things like that have a ripple effect all through the
movie so there was a lot of work to do, and as Colin said, there were three of
us, we rolled up our sleeves and we got to work and made the movie you see.
Colin Goudie: It was like life
imitating art. Let’s get a band of people and put them together on this secret
mission and that’s what’s happening in the film but that’s also what was
happening editorially.
We were all jumping in and taking part in the mission and
pulling that master switch. It was a bit like that really.
John Gilroy: I don’t know who’s Jyn
or who’s Cassian, but it’s a good analogy, I like that analogy.
Colin Goudie: All we need is the
blind monk and I think we’re good to go. A blind editor doesn’t sound so good
though.
The point with the opening scenes that John was just describing
was that the introductions in the opening scene, in the prologue, was always the
same. Jyn’s just a little girl, so when you see her as an adult what you saw
initially was her in a meeting. That’s not a nice introduction.
They got there eventually in the film, but this way we came in
on the ground running, which was better.
John Gilroy: It became very
important to plant the seeds the right way, you’ve got to set up the movie the
right way, and then things pay off in the second and third acts.
Yahoo Movies: How much of the film’s final third changed?
John Gilroy: It changed quite a bit.
The third act has a lot going on. You have like seven different action venues,
the mechanics of the act changed quite a bit in terms of the characters, and I
don’t want to go into too much detail about what had been there before, but
it was different.
We moved some of the things that our heroes did, they were
different in the original then they were as it was conceived.
Because you needed to figure that out, and everything else
changes. Everything was connected to everything so doing something to one venue
would change all the other venues, so really we had to… we were working on that
until the last minute, because we working closely with ILM, they were giving us
temporary shots and we’d put them in, we’d work them, we’d reconceive again.
Yahoo Movies: Did you face any continuity issues blending
the new stuff with the old stuff?
John Gilroy: That’s mostly a production
issue. The whole thing on a ‘Star Wars’ movie you have such professionalism at
every level. Everybody that’s working on the movie is just at the top of their
game so that wasn’t so hard for us.
Colin Goudie: You talk about trying
to make things match from the original shoot and the pickup shoot done a couple
of months later: that’s nothing.
We were matching a film that had been shot 40 years earlier.
John Gilroy: That was fun. In the
star battle we see Red Leader and Gold Leader. They had these dailies, and they
thought it would be a really great idea if we could work it in. So we’re going
through the dailies from 40 years ago, picking up pieces that were not used in
the original, and then working them into scenarios in the air battle.
Gold Leader, that actor [Angus MacInnes] is still alive, so we
looped him [re-recorded new dialogue to dub over footage] and I think it was a
really heady experience for him to be looping himself 40 years later, but that
was a lot of fun.
Colin Goudie: What was interesting about
that was that we had one day right at the beginning of the process back in
2014, and Gareth and I had just done a tour of the archives at Skywalker ranch,
and as we were leaving we came out of the back. And out the back there were
racks and racks of film and Gareth said ‘what’s that?’
And they said ‘that’s the original reels from ‘A New Hope’’, and
Gareth said ‘can we see that? See what’s on it?’ And they were like ‘yeah, I
guess!’
And that’s where the idea came from. We went through those cans
of film and looked at them and it was like ‘oh my gosh, we can and integrate
the pilots in somehow.’
Yahoo Movies: Well, it got a round of applause when we saw
it, so we’re glad you figured it out.
John Gilroy: [Laughs] You know
what’s really fun? I’m a fan, but not like Colin. By the way, Colin was our
‘Star Wars’ fan, any time I had to understand the authenticity of something, I
would ask Colin: he is a true fan.
But it was so much fun to plant, and to put in all these little
‘Star Wars’ nuggets through the movie, and when we finally showed it… we didn’t
have previews. But to see people respond to those things… you know, we’re not
making too much of
them, because if you didn’t know, it would be OK too, but when people see those
little things, they’re so happy, it was touching to see.
Colin Goudie: I would also say what’s
interesting there that John just alluded to – [having no previews] – was
actually one of the hardest challenges on this film.
It’s certainly unlike anything I’ve ever done, and John’s got
much more experience of huge movies than I have but normally with everything
I’ve ever done we previewed. Even the smallest films, the smallest independent
movies, we previewed them. And based on those reactions, you get this feedback
in the room from an audience. Is it too slow? Is it too fast? What’s working,
what isn’t?
And as John just said, because of the secrecy on a ‘Star Wars’
film, they don’t preview. And so the first time we saw that was with 2,700
other people at the world premiere.
And that means you just don’t know until you see it like that.
John Gilroy: This happens with
movies that are this popular. The preview thing just becomes very problematic.
We’ve done friends and family screenings in the past, but we were really busy
right to the end, that’s the only way I can put it, and we had a lot to do.
We added our composer Michael Giacchino really, really late to
the game and we were really running at the movie very hard right up to the very
end. So it’s a combination of security and time that didn’t permit us to show
this to people, which is what you would normally do because you learn a lot
from preview screenings.
Colin Goudie: It’s interesting
because when we used to watch it in the dubbing theatre or when making IMAX
copies or things like that to review it, I was just sat there thinking ‘this is really good now’.
But it was also this thing of thinking ‘have I just become
delusional after two years?’
John Gilroy: I think editors have a…
you have to have a sturdier compass than most people, because you are seeing
things over and over and over again. But it’s true, we’re all human, you could
watch things so many times that you get a little numb.
Colin Goudie: We thought it was surprising
because every time I sat and watched it, I enjoyed it. Sometimes I was watching
the whole movie, particularly in that last week, reviewing those prints two or
three times a day, and each time I’ve thought ‘I’m still feeling it…
thankfully!’
It’s a good thing.
Yahoo Movies: Were there any particularly challenging
scenes that you were tinkering with right up until the end?
John Gilroy: I think the most – and
I’ve said this before in other interviews – I think sensitive dialogue scenes,
you have to have a finer sort of touch and they require even more attention
than the big action scenes, but that said I think what we did in the third act,
because there were so many things going on, I’m very proud of that. It was
really hard to do.
The movie also has some great scenes between the characters. I
think one of the things about this movie that really works is that it’s very intimate.
It’s really about this one woman’s journey.
I’d say on this movie the action was probably harder than those
dialogue scenes, but the dialogue, you have to have a very sensitive touch and
you have to very attuned to what those people are doing to really cut a great
dialogue scene.
Colin Goudie: That hologram scene [on
Jedha], talking of dialogue scenes, that was an interesting one because there
was so much going on. The camera moves, the hologram moves, and the Death Star
moving as well. There were shots from ILM with the actors and then you’ve got
to record Mads [Mikkelsen] to match the movement as well, based on which takes
we used. Things like that were very technically difficult scenes.
But I think that last battle scene, it’s like an hour, once they
get through the gate on to Scarif [the tropical planet that holds the Empire’s
Death Star plans]. I think people are surprised that when the movie feels like
it’s going to end, it carries on but not in a bad way as well.
It suddenly kicks up another notch. You’ve gone from the beach
scene to suddenly another huge action scene with [Darth] Vader and stuff.
John Gilroy: That’s actually very
rare that you can do that. You go from your main characters – they die – and
it’s incredibly poignant, then you go from there to Vader boarding the ship and
there’s this earned action sequence which is really quite mind-blowing
especially for ‘Star Wars’ fans. Then finally you go to Leia and emotionally
you’ve turned, you have three different emotions in the space of ten minutes,
but I don’t think anyone feels manipulated. And that’s really cool. That’s a
great way to end a movie.
So that people when they get up they’re like ‘yeah, OK good, I
feel good. Let’s go have a drink and talk about it.’
Colin Goudie: That last piece was a
real jigsaw. Because those scenes, up until that moment, most scenes followed
on logically. If you look at them, you have Galen on the platform in the rain,
that’s A follows B. Jyn leaves the shuttle and goes off, C follows then D.
John Gilroy: But we were only
interested in the right way. We were interested in the right way and that’s
what we went for.
Colin Goudie: Yeah, that was probably
the hardest nugget to find. I think. Because that always something that’s a
difficult one to crack. It’s come together beautifully, but I think that’s one
of the hardest pieces.
John Gilroy: It was something that
had to be right. You had a lot to keep track of. There was quite a bit of
expository information that was being set up and you had to pay attention to,
and you had to make everything arc. You’re making all these things arc and come
to meet at the end, so it was very tricky.
It was challenging. But it was fun. It’s funny when something
like that, something complicated like that, you can feel when it starts to
click in. We were feeling those clicks early on, but when you finally get it
right you can really feel it all snap together and you go ‘aha!’
Colin Goudie: It’s kind of like a Rubik’s
Cube. Whereby you have to mess it all up until you do that last piece of the
puzzle. You get closer and closer and closer, then suddenly on that penultimate
move you mix the entire Rubik’s Cube up and then you slot it all back in and
then that’s it. And I think that was how I felt that last hour went.
John Gilroy: That’s a good analogy,
I like that.
Colin Goudie: Hmm.
John Gilroy: I don’t know. For me,
no. I can’t think of anything.
Colin Goudie: There’s a handful that
if people see them they’ll be like ‘oh that’s interesting’, but I don’t think
there’s anything whereby you’d be like ‘why did they cut that out?’
John Gilroy: We were in a different
position. It wasn’t like ‘the movie’s great, but we have to lose 10 minutes’ or
whatever. It was a different situation.
Yahoo Movies: Did you ever discuss having transition wipes
like the original films?
John Gilroy: Sure.
Colin Goudie: It was discussed very
early on.
Wipes were experimented with but…
Colin Goudie: I think we used all those
original wipes and we temped [a temporary soundtrack] it with John Williams as
well, and it would feel right. Like when we did the original story reels, I was
using footage from other movies, so having those wipes and having the John
Williams score helped with making the hodge podge of shots I’d put together
feel like what we were aiming for.
Once we actually got in everything we’d shot, we no longer
needed those things and I was initially sad to see the transitions go, but then
when I watch the final film, I don’t miss them, because it feels like a
different beast.
It feels familiar but at the same time fresh.
John Gilroy: I think that it’s
wonderfully… it’s just the right amount of different from other ‘Star Wars’
movies, but it also feels very much like a ‘Star Wars’ movie.
It’s a very tricky line to walk but I feel like we got it right.
Because true ‘Star Wars’ fans can really get a lot out of it, but it’s also
what it is. It’s a different movie and it kind of morphs, right at the very end
with Darth Vader and Leia, it morphs into ‘A New Hope’.
You can see it in the last little while, it starts to morph into
and cut more like the original movie and feel more like the original movie. I
just think that’s great, that we had our own film language and then we were
able to – at the end – move ourselves so that we could touch the beginning of
that first movie.
‘Rogue One: A Star Wars’ story is in cinemas nationwide now.
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